• Why an M3 tuner shootout will never happen - OE Tuning only tuner to agree to third party shootout


      As many of you know, we attempted to get an M3 tuner shootout going. This is now the second time we have tried and it won't be taking place. Why? Tuners aren't interested in putting their products up against one another in a third party environment. Too large of a risk for them and most tuners prefer to battle it out through marketing on forums, not with real results.

      There have been a lot of accusations flying around as of late. A number of them came from Powerchip as well as a community member known as spdu4ea who took great liberty with posting accusations against OE Tuning all over the place claiming proof of dyno manipulation. The problem is, he had no proof, instead providing what amounted to a somewhat educated guess which is dangerous and misleading. Especially considering he later rescinded stating he wished he titled his thread differently:

      We wonder if he will be as aggressive in sharing that no other tuner would meet OE Tuning head to head on the dyno?

      Powerchip used this opportunity, despite there being no proof and only a series of coincidences on a sample size of 2 graphs that could easily have several other explanations, to market against OE Tuning. It is no secret Powerchip continues to attempt to attack their former tuner who somehow was excellent while he was working for them but for some reason now they claim he is not. Jeremy also somehow was able to tune the car that set the fastest lap at Mfest, first E9X to break 130 mph in the 1/4 mile, and also two cars that took 1st and 2nd place in the Ultimate Heist Vehicle Challenge. This crticism specifically came from Mike Benvo at Powerchip. We have to ask, when is the last time Powerchip did anything of merit, anything at all? No SC tunes, no record setting M3's, nothing but typing.

      What is odd is Mr. Benvo suggested and even asked for a test:

      Well, we proceeded to call Mike@Powerchip and tell him about the tuner shootout. After a few days we heard back from Mike saying someone else from Powerchip would have to handle this. Matt@Powerchip is apparently out of the country so we asked who at Powerchip would be available and Mike simply stated he did not know who was in charge and he would not participate. Well, it would seem when it actually comes down to it, Powerchip will not participate in any independent testing vs. OE Tuning.

      This really leaves us scratching our heads. Why would the only tuner who agrees to an independent dyno comparison with the rules and testing all established by third parties be the one the competition is accusing of manipulation? Why is the only tuner who steps up to the plate the one that supposedly is doing something wrong? Why? Because there is nothing to hide. Powerchip knows they can not compete with their former tuner and therefore will stick to trying to change your mind on forums instead of with results. It's all a shady game people, that is all this is. They don't want a real test to take place, all that would mean is that all the claims would finally be put to the test. By perpetually putting off a real test they can perpetually make their accusations and claims. Brilliant, right?

      We need you to understand the tuning game is dirty, extremely dirty. The competition is fierce and tuners will do just about anything to alter perception and control your mind. They pay big dollars for control of forums, you see it happen all the time and it's one of the reasons BimmerBoost exists. Information that is potentially damaging on big forums with big dollar vendor contracts disappears if the vendor does not like it. They pay for protection, almost like the mafia. They will bribe former customers to get them to switch, they will download competitors files, they will steal tunes, this all takes place on a daily basis. The majority of tunes out there especially for the M3 originate overseas from a single source. If there was nobody working on the inside we wouldn't even get any decent tunes as no one would solve the encryption. There is a source overseas that provides the base tunes for several of the major tuners you are familiar with today but you won't hear them say it. The difference becomes how the tuners each proceed from there. They get the base tools, it's up to them how they are applied. That is where the tuners skill comes in and a shootout on the same car is the perfect way to see who is the best. Things are not how you think they are if you only go by what is posted on certain forums.

      We invited every tuner as stated. We contacted every single one and here is what took place:

      Active Autowerke - Did not bother to respond.

      ESS - Did not bother to respond, no surprise after what happened previously with them backing out at the last minute.

      Eurocharged - Responded, said they did not want to get in the middle of an OE Tuning / Powerchip fight and that is completely understandable.

      Evolve Automotive - Responded and suggested excellent testing procedures which would be applied for all tuners. Evolve stated they would likely not participate due to issues with getting someone they felt they could trust to handle their tune being based in the UK and not in SoCal.

      GIAC - No response, did not respond the first time, and BMW tuning reputation seems to have taken a significant hit.

      MHP - Responded, will participate in track shootout only as they prefer track results.

      OE Tuning - Responded, participating, ready, and waiting.

      Powerchip - Responded, aware, and Mike@Powerchip stated he has no intention of participating with Jeremy@OE Tuning involved.

      Singh - Responded, said they prefer to do rolling runs to prove their tune.

      Turner Motorsport - Responded and stated they do not believe this is in their best interest which we completely understand and agree with. Turner was incredibly gracious and took the time to respond and ask questions. We thank them for their time.

      So, why is a tuner shootout not in a tuners best interest? Because the battle is being waged for your mind on forums, not in the real world. These forums are the primary way potential customers get information. All that would happen in an M3 tuner shootout is that all the claims would be put to the test. There is too much too lose, the risk is too high. No tuner wants to take that risk, well, except for 1 tuner. We heard previous excuses about bias. Well, the dyno is completely a third party, DC Performance, not affiliated with any tuner. The procedures were suggested by tuners themselves. Completely independent third party handling all details with rules the tuners agree to themselves. Only one tuner stated wherever it is held with whatever rules they are willing to put their skills to the test. Now tell us, would a tuner who needs to manipulate dyno results be the one willing to participate in a shootout? Or would the tuner who is not willing to participate likely be the one manipulating perception on forums? Well, it would seem you have the answer.
      This article was originally published in forum thread: Why an M3 tuner shootout will never happen - OE Tuning only tuner to agree to third party shootout started by Sticky View original post
      Comments 61 Comments
      1. Yomama69's Avatar
        Yomama69 -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by catch_m3 Click here to enlarge
        The airport is about 2 hours north-east of Detroit.
        The thumb? You wouldn't catch me dead in that trashy hell.
      1. catch_m3's Avatar
        catch_m3 -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Yomama69 Click here to enlarge
        The thumb? You wouldn't catch me dead in that trashy hell.
        It's in Canada. And the quality of cars that come out is pretty high.
      1. Yomama69's Avatar
        Yomama69 -
        Kitchener area?
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by catch_m3 Click here to enlarge
        We are holding an airport day mid-June.
        Here are the specs for the runway:

        Length: 5,012 ft
        Elevation: 822 feet ASL

        It will be turned into a track, Top Gear style.
        At the end of the day we will have roll ons, M5Board style.
        The airport is about 2 hours north-east of Detroit.

        PM me and you can do roll-on tuner testing beyond the 1/4 mile If you are serious enough.

        Good day.

        Here are some pics from the last event:

        http://www.bimmerboost.com/images/im...5890_842-1.jpg

        http://www.bimmerboost.com/images/im...5887_383-1.jpg

        http://www.bimmerboost.com/images/im...5895_438-1.jpg

        http://www.bimmerboost.com/images/im...5937_737-1.jpg

        http://www.bimmerboost.com/images/im...5902_814-1.jpg
        Where are you located?

        Whoops, just saw Canada. That is awesome, pm me details please.
      1. Mike Benvo's Avatar
        Mike Benvo -
        lol Joseph...

        Last I heard the OP in the m3 post thread (xchosin1x) changed his exhaust system. Don't you think that invalidates the test? We were trying to prove that SPECIFIC chart was not accurate. Take my name out of this unless you want me to address all of the malformed statements in your OP.

        Please continue with your games and manipulation. I know you have to create makeshift stories because your car is at Gintani, but I'm really tired of your clearly biased posts.
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Mike Benvo Click here to enlarge
        Last I heard the OP in the m3 post thread (xchosin1x) changed his exhaust system. Don't you think that invalidates the test? We were trying to prove that SPECIFIC chart was not accurate. Take my name out of this unless you want me to address all of the malformed statements in your OP.
        This is not about anything beyond a tuner shootout. Don't really care about any other thread or details we are discussing how Powerchip got very quiet all of a sudden when it came down to putting the claims to the test instead of typing.

        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Mike Benvo Click here to enlarge
        Please continue with your games and manipulation. I know you have to create makeshift stories because your car is at Gintani, but I'm really tired of your clearly biased posts.
        With all due respect, this is not an attack on you personally in any way. You decided to to go after OE Tuning, that is your prerogative. Powerchip was invited to meet OE Tuning and any other tuner on the dyno. Powerchip is more interested in typing.

        I'm not interested in playing any games. I'm not interested in any manipulation. Get to the dyno and put all the BS aside taking the same risk any other tuner willing to participate is taking. Very, very simple. My car could be on the moon it would not change the fact both you and Powerchip will not face OE Tuning head to head after all that you said. That my friend is not a makeshift story, it's the truth.
      1. M3some's Avatar
        M3some -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
        I think what this happens to be is a battle for E9X minds. Let's be honest, the E9X owners are the most ill-informed and worst group in the entire BMW community really. You have a ton of new owners who have no idea what they are talking about and a lot of them are on forums. The problem is, they are so new they believe everything they read and tuners take advantage of it. An entire business case is built around it practically. I see it all the time and it is simply too frustrating to battle it out where this stuff originates. It is simply best to respond in the right manner and a tuner shootout is exactly that, but we see what happens.
        you couldn't have said it any better!! That is exactly how those owners are. I remember a thread on Bf.c. Where a kid that had a E9x was talking a lot of $#@! to a member with an E36 the member with the E36 has more track days under his belt then this kid had pimples on his face. I am a die hard BMW enthusiast ask anyone who knows me. My dad and i run a shop that our customer base is soley Corvette and Gm car owners but up until i turned 15years old (10yrs ago) I've been all about European and Exotics vehicles. Now our shop has expanded further into the European market. The one vehicle i choose to drive is the Bmw M3 i own 3 of them (well one is my little bros but i built it and i drive it more than he does) I cannot stand the E9x owner who has never owned a BMW or an M at that or even a fast car (which tends to be most of them). They act very similar to the 5thgen Camaro guys with their heads in the clouds. I try to help educate but when people go home at night and type searches into google it's hard to compete with the mis infromation because there is just too much of it. If the forums are filled with so many experts then how come there aren't more tuners? Its sad i used to love forums (i love bimmerboost.com) until Bmw built the E9x and a whole bunch more d-bags joined our community. PG being the prime example of what i am talking about.
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by M3some Click here to enlarge
        you couldn't have said it any better!! That is exactly how those owners are. I remember a thread on Bf.c. Where a kid that had a E9x was talking a lot of $#@! to a member with an E36 the member with the E36 has more track days under his belt then this kid had pimples on his face. I am a die hard BMW enthusiast ask anyone who knows me. My dad and i run a shop that our customer base is soley Corvette and Gm car owners but up until i turned 15years old (10yrs ago) I've been all about European and Exotics vehicles. Now our shop has expanded further into the European market. The one vehicle i choose to drive is the Bmw M3 i own 3 of them (well one is my little bros but i built it and i drive it more than he does) I cannot stand the E9x owner who has never owned a BMW or an M at that or even a fast car (which tends to be most of them). They act very similar to the 5thgen Camaro guys with their heads in the clouds. I try to help educate but when people go home at night and type searches into google it's hard to compete with the mis infromation because there is just too much of it. If the forums are filled with so many experts then how come there aren't more tuners? Its sad i used to love forums (i love bimmerboost.com) until Bmw built the E9x and a whole bunch more d-bags joined our community. PG being the prime example of what i am talking about.
        It happens every time a new model is released. The E36 guys hated the E46 guys who were a bunch of morons and now it is the E9X group. It is a little worse with the E9X as with the turbo motors everyone because an expert overnight.

        PG is the perfect example of what is wrong but he is so far out there that he is not a good representation of the majority as if he were we would have some serious problems in the community.

        When the F30 rolls around this cycle will repeat itself and companies will be putting out their propaganda to try to get their foothold in that market.

        Part of the problem is kids with E9X's as you said it. Parents lease them for their little angels and then they talk $#@! on the internet all day. The older platforms have all settled down from this as knowledgeable owners actually own their cars who aren't just new brand whores.
      1. M3some's Avatar
        M3some -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by evolve Click here to enlarge
        First thing is first.

        This all started because one company released a test of their tune vs the tune of a competitor.

        This is not really a good strategy. Sometimes it has to be done but really should be avoided when tensions already exist.
        You are wrong the owner of the car posted his results. He was not instructed by anyone of OE Tuning or Gintani to do so. There was no intention on their part to throw anyone under the bus. The owner of the car simply just wanted to share his results. Comments such as these are not needed. Ill brew a fresh pot.
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by M3some Click here to enlarge
        You are wrong the owner of the car posted his results. He was not instructed by anyone of OE Tuning or Gintani to do so. There was no intention on their part to throw anyone under the bus. The owner of the car simply just wanted to share his results. Comments such as these are not needed. Ill brew a fresh pot.
        This is correct, the owner posted his results and then Powerchip got their panties in a twist. Powerchip started talking tough and now... well, ran away.
      1. M3some's Avatar
        M3some -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
        This is correct, the owner posted his results and then Powerchip got their panties in a twist. Powerchip started talking tough and now... well, ran away.

        i know i was there that day I PERSONALLY STRAPPED THE CAR DOWN. i set the tach. Alex sat in the car the whole time. Jeremy was in Sacramento racing his car. Thats why i know this is all Bs...i dont post much on any forums due to the fact i know too much of what goes on and the fire has enough gas in it. Every now and then i spend some time on the forums like today and i get a headache from it. Bren already touched on it. I just saw the apology from Sal . I do apologize to him for re posting this after he has already made his peace.
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by M3some Click here to enlarge
        i know i was there that day I PERSONALLY STRAPPED THE CAR DOWN. i set the tach. Alex sat in the car the whole time. Jeremy was in Sacramento racing his car. Thats why i know this is all Bs...i dont post much on any forums due to the fact i know too much of what goes on and the fire has enough gas in it. Every now and then i spend some time on the forums like today and i get a headache from it. Bren already touched on it. I just saw the apology from Sal . I do apologize to him for re posting this after he has already made his peace.
        Your perspective is appreciated.

        What is unfortunate is Alex supports forums that allow this type of BS that hurts his company to take place. I think he needs to change that and focus on marketing in areas that will do him more good. No need to reward that type of shady behavior, IMO.

        The forum BS and what actualy goes on used to get to me as well which is why this place exists...
      1. ERM324's Avatar
        ERM324 -
        ^JJ I texted you the other day. We can use my car to put all this $#@! to an end and get videos before, during, and after the dyno ill bring my camera. Also, I know OE has a 20% discount during may so if your back and $#@! id be down to get it done before the end of may. Lemme know man
      1. M3some's Avatar
        M3some -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
        This is correct, the owner posted his results and then Powerchip got their panties in a twist. Powerchip started talking tough and now... well, ran away.
        They always have done it. I worked for PC for a little bit and i also became friends with them quite awhile before i even started working there. Very shady group of people. The best idea I've seen proposed by Sal is for everyone to go to an independent shop and Dyno your car. I have yet to see any of the leaders of the lynch mob go and do this. Yet they still talk $#@! on the board. I would love to see a Dyno shoot out with all the tuners in one location battling it out, But its not really needed when a customer can just go to a shop and have it done not that hard at all. I just made a purchase of new tuning equipment through OE Tuning, when i do receive it i will be on a mission here in New York to prove to everyone that OE Tuning and Gintani have some of the best products on the market. I have every popular Dyno type at my disposal. I have multiple E9x M3s that are willing to go to each Dyno. One day I'll have the cars at one Dyno than, another day we will be at the next.. Post all my findings and then take it from there.
      1. M3some's Avatar
        M3some -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by ERM324 Click here to enlarge
        ^JJ I texted you the other day. We can use my car to put all this $#@! to an end and get videos before, during, and after the dyno ill bring my camera. Also, I know OE has a 20% discount during may so if your back and $#@! id be down to get it done before the end of may. Lemme know man
        Really!?!..Sorry bro my cell phone is a pos droid..try to call me if i dont answer back your texts ...yes your car is one of the ones i have considered for testing. I've been waiting FOREVER for these tools and im getting very impatient it's not OE's fault as they are waiting for the same package i am. I will still honor any discount for the month of May even if i get my tools next year no worries there. I am back in New York Just waiting for tools treading of water. I promise you will be first to know when i get the tools and we can set up a date. I want to get you tuned more than you want the tune lol.
      1. M3some's Avatar
        M3some -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
        Your perspective is appreciated.

        What is unfortunate is Alex supports forums that allow this type of BS that hurts his company to take place. I think he needs to change that and focus on marketing in areas that will do him more good. No need to reward that type of shady behavior, IMO.

        The forum BS and what actualy goes on used to get to me as well which is why this place exists...
        Thank you i will try to post a bit more. And Thank you for creating Bimmerboost.com without it ,it would be for sure harder for a lot of vendors to do business and get past some of the bias.
      1. ERM324's Avatar
        ERM324 -
        ^Lol no worries...I wana apologize again for that whole "run around" comment, I misphrased it...I knew it wasnt ur fault at all about that equipment......yeah just leme know when they come in because I have a couple people to run and we have to prove this whole "tuner war" $#@!".....ttyl jj
      1. M3some's Avatar
        M3some -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by ERM324 Click here to enlarge
        ^Lol no worries...I wana apologize again for that whole "run around" comment, I misphrased it...I knew it wasnt ur fault at all about that equipment......yeah just leme know when they come in because I have a couple people to run and we have to prove this whole "tuner war" $#@!".....ttyl jj
        Its cool bro...You've been waiting for a very long time. I have a list of customers that are waiting on me and i get called and emailed everyday about it. Some people aren't as understanding has you have been. Again Thank you and i will take care of you when it comes time for us to tune your car.
      1. ERM324's Avatar
        ERM324 -
        ^ur the man, hit me up when the $#@! comes !
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by M3some Click here to enlarge
        Thank you i will try to post a bit more. And Thank you for creating Bimmerboost.com without it ,it would be for sure harder for a lot of vendors to do business and get past some of the bias.
        Appreciated, please do post more! I had to make the site, I just couldn't take the BS any longer or sit around not doing anything about it.