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    • Why an M3 tuner shootout will never happen - OE Tuning only tuner to agree to third party shootout


      As many of you know, we attempted to get an M3 tuner shootout going. This is now the second time we have tried and it won't be taking place. Why? Tuners aren't interested in putting their products up against one another in a third party environment. Too large of a risk for them and most tuners prefer to battle it out through marketing on forums, not with real results.

      There have been a lot of accusations flying around as of late. A number of them came from Powerchip as well as a community member known as spdu4ea who took great liberty with posting accusations against OE Tuning all over the place claiming proof of dyno manipulation. The problem is, he had no proof, instead providing what amounted to a somewhat educated guess which is dangerous and misleading. Especially considering he later rescinded stating he wished he titled his thread differently:

      We wonder if he will be as aggressive in sharing that no other tuner would meet OE Tuning head to head on the dyno?

      Powerchip used this opportunity, despite there being no proof and only a series of coincidences on a sample size of 2 graphs that could easily have several other explanations, to market against OE Tuning. It is no secret Powerchip continues to attempt to attack their former tuner who somehow was excellent while he was working for them but for some reason now they claim he is not. Jeremy also somehow was able to tune the car that set the fastest lap at Mfest, first E9X to break 130 mph in the 1/4 mile, and also two cars that took 1st and 2nd place in the Ultimate Heist Vehicle Challenge. This crticism specifically came from Mike Benvo at Powerchip. We have to ask, when is the last time Powerchip did anything of merit, anything at all? No SC tunes, no record setting M3's, nothing but typing.

      What is odd is Mr. Benvo suggested and even asked for a test:

      Well, we proceeded to call Mike@Powerchip and tell him about the tuner shootout. After a few days we heard back from Mike saying someone else from Powerchip would have to handle this. Matt@Powerchip is apparently out of the country so we asked who at Powerchip would be available and Mike simply stated he did not know who was in charge and he would not participate. Well, it would seem when it actually comes down to it, Powerchip will not participate in any independent testing vs. OE Tuning.

      This really leaves us scratching our heads. Why would the only tuner who agrees to an independent dyno comparison with the rules and testing all established by third parties be the one the competition is accusing of manipulation? Why is the only tuner who steps up to the plate the one that supposedly is doing something wrong? Why? Because there is nothing to hide. Powerchip knows they can not compete with their former tuner and therefore will stick to trying to change your mind on forums instead of with results. It's all a shady game people, that is all this is. They don't want a real test to take place, all that would mean is that all the claims would finally be put to the test. By perpetually putting off a real test they can perpetually make their accusations and claims. Brilliant, right?

      We need you to understand the tuning game is dirty, extremely dirty. The competition is fierce and tuners will do just about anything to alter perception and control your mind. They pay big dollars for control of forums, you see it happen all the time and it's one of the reasons BimmerBoost exists. Information that is potentially damaging on big forums with big dollar vendor contracts disappears if the vendor does not like it. They pay for protection, almost like the mafia. They will bribe former customers to get them to switch, they will download competitors files, they will steal tunes, this all takes place on a daily basis. The majority of tunes out there especially for the M3 originate overseas from a single source. If there was nobody working on the inside we wouldn't even get any decent tunes as no one would solve the encryption. There is a source overseas that provides the base tunes for several of the major tuners you are familiar with today but you won't hear them say it. The difference becomes how the tuners each proceed from there. They get the base tools, it's up to them how they are applied. That is where the tuners skill comes in and a shootout on the same car is the perfect way to see who is the best. Things are not how you think they are if you only go by what is posted on certain forums.

      We invited every tuner as stated. We contacted every single one and here is what took place:

      Active Autowerke - Did not bother to respond.

      ESS - Did not bother to respond, no surprise after what happened previously with them backing out at the last minute.

      Eurocharged - Responded, said they did not want to get in the middle of an OE Tuning / Powerchip fight and that is completely understandable.

      Evolve Automotive - Responded and suggested excellent testing procedures which would be applied for all tuners. Evolve stated they would likely not participate due to issues with getting someone they felt they could trust to handle their tune being based in the UK and not in SoCal.

      GIAC - No response, did not respond the first time, and BMW tuning reputation seems to have taken a significant hit.

      MHP - Responded, will participate in track shootout only as they prefer track results.

      OE Tuning - Responded, participating, ready, and waiting.

      Powerchip - Responded, aware, and Mike@Powerchip stated he has no intention of participating with Jeremy@OE Tuning involved.

      Singh - Responded, said they prefer to do rolling runs to prove their tune.

      Turner Motorsport - Responded and stated they do not believe this is in their best interest which we completely understand and agree with. Turner was incredibly gracious and took the time to respond and ask questions. We thank them for their time.

      So, why is a tuner shootout not in a tuners best interest? Because the battle is being waged for your mind on forums, not in the real world. These forums are the primary way potential customers get information. All that would happen in an M3 tuner shootout is that all the claims would be put to the test. There is too much too lose, the risk is too high. No tuner wants to take that risk, well, except for 1 tuner. We heard previous excuses about bias. Well, the dyno is completely a third party, DC Performance, not affiliated with any tuner. The procedures were suggested by tuners themselves. Completely independent third party handling all details with rules the tuners agree to themselves. Only one tuner stated wherever it is held with whatever rules they are willing to put their skills to the test. Now tell us, would a tuner who needs to manipulate dyno results be the one willing to participate in a shootout? Or would the tuner who is not willing to participate likely be the one manipulating perception on forums? Well, it would seem you have the answer.
      This article was originally published in forum thread: Why an M3 tuner shootout will never happen - OE Tuning only tuner to agree to third party shootout started by Sticky View original post
      Comments 61 Comments
      1. BattaM3's Avatar
        BattaM3 -
        Seems impossible to get a honest opinion these days. Un-bias. Even I lean one way. Pro-hpf because I've never had a single problem with service. Couple car issues which everyone knows. Every person I speak thats going FI with any kits I always suggest having some extra cash around. Sometimes $#@! breaks. Most kits are pushing 150rwhp to crazy numbers. I know I beat the hell outta my car and love every minute of it.
      1. Bimmerdude's Avatar
        Bimmerdude -
        It seems silly to me that there is so much drama going on. One of the things I HIGHLY appreciate about Karl (at Active) is his willingness to be honest about most of this stuff. He respects other tuners who have good abilities. If you can't recognize when another company has you beat on something, then you have your head in the sand...
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by BattaM3 Click here to enlarge
        Seems impossible to get a honest opinion these days. Un-bias. Even I lean one way. Pro-hpf because I've never had a single problem with service. Couple car issues which everyone knows. Every person I speak thats going FI with any kits I always suggest having some extra cash around. Sometimes $#@! breaks. Most kits are pushing 150rwhp to crazy numbers. I know I beat the hell outta my car and love every minute of it.
        I don't know if I would say it's impossible get an honest opinion as much as major forces have conspired to control information. It's like our media and politics just on a smaller scale.

        Whenever we try to get independent results they refuse. It just makes the claims look weak when they can't back them up.
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Bimmerdude Click here to enlarge
        It seems silly to me that there is so much drama going on. One of the things I HIGHLY appreciate about Karl (at Active) is his willingness to be honest about most of this stuff. He respects other tuners who have good abilities. If you can't recognize when another company has you beat on something, then you have your head in the sand...
        Karl is a good guy by all accounts. I'm very disappointed that Active did not even take the time to respond. They have e-mailed me previously whenever I put up details on their products (for the benefit of you guys, not for any $) so I'm surprised they didn't even bother.
      1. BattaM3's Avatar
        BattaM3 -
        Karl helped me a couple times when I as running the stage 2 kit. AA is another great company I would suggest to people. My friend just got there latest stg1.5 kit. No meth,little less boost.

        Always was easy to get AA on the phone.
      1. DD GT3 RD's Avatar
        DD GT3 RD -
        I like mhp's idea. you should do a track day instead. hire a 3rd party driver and have them run 10 passes. cool down time. switch tunes. average trap speeds or something
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by DD GT3 RD Click here to enlarge
        I like mbp's idea. you should do a track day instead. hire a 3rd party driver and have them run 10 passes. cool down time. switch tunes. average trap speeds or something
        It would have to be a track shootout with different cars. Switching tunes at the track is more difficult and there are more variables such as DA and traction. I don't think anyone would submit there car for tuners to beat on it all day at the track.

        If anything, a track shootout would amount to tuners bringing customer cars or their own.

        The reality is, roll on racing with different cars is the closest we will get and I will have no problem renting a track to do that as we discussed Sammy. Our own alternative to M5board with some real details.

        This was all mostly a response to Powerchip talking large. Well, they had their opportunity for a dyno comparison, for the second time.
      1. LostMarine's Avatar
        LostMarine -
        PC FTL again
      1. inter1032's Avatar
        inter1032 -
        what a joke some of these companies are
        someone needs to round up some different cars and hit the track or do some of those m5 board videos
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by inter1032 Click here to enlarge
        what a joke some of these companies are
        someone needs to round up some different cars and hit the track or do some of those m5 board videos
        Looks like roll on race videos are going to be our only choice.

        This really doesn't have anything to do with the other companies. This is pretty much Powerchip vs. OE Tuning and Powerchip called them out. Well, here is the perfect chance, so what is the problem?
      1. black bnr32's Avatar
        black bnr32 -
        you don't see this rediculous drama with tuners of older bmws
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by black bnr32 Click here to enlarge
        you don't see this rediculous drama with tuners of older bmws
        That is kind of an interesting point, I think maybe the E36 market is more figured out. That, or maybe forum marketing is evolving. Hasn't there been a fair share of E36 tuner drama on bf.c though?
      1. black bnr32's Avatar
        black bnr32 -
        i think many would agree that no, there has not been. they especially don't argue publically. you never see nick g, karl, mike r, mike @ trm, etc arguing with earch other. i have seen osh banned though...ha
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by black bnr32 Click here to enlarge
        i think many would agree that no, there has not been. they especially don't argue publically. you never see nick g, karl, mike r, mike @ trm, etc arguing with earch other. i have seen osh banned though...ha
        Well, Nick G is pretty smart and doesn't really need to defend his product plus he doesn't really have people going after them. If people were, he would react differently or at least respond in the right way.

        Karl doesn't need to get involved, he made his mark in the E36 world.

        Mike R has a good reputation on bf.c and tons of fanboys, not a bad thing.

        Never really seen details from TRM so I don't know.

        I think what this happens to be is a battle for E9X minds. Let's be honest, the E9X owners are the most ill-informed and worst group in the entire BMW community really. You have a ton of new owners who have no idea what they are talking about and a lot of them are on forums. The problem is, they are so new they believe everything they read and tuners take advantage of it. An entire business case is built around it practically. I see it all the time and it is simply too frustrating to battle it out where this stuff originates. It is simply best to respond in the right manner and a tuner shootout is exactly that, but we see what happens.

        I think a roll on event will be the closest we can all come to a direct comparison between tuners. I will be directing my energy toward organizing that.
      1. BattaM3's Avatar
        BattaM3 -
        Yea you see drama with the e36 owners instead of tuners.
      1. LostMarine's Avatar
        LostMarine -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
        I think what this is happens to be a battle for E9X minds. Let's be honest, the E9X owners are the most ill-informed and worst group in the entire BMW community really. You have a ton of new owners who have no idea what they are talking about and a lot of them are on forums. The problem is, they are so new they believe everything they read and tuners take advantage of it. An entire business case is built around it practically. I see it all the time and it is simply too frustrating to battle it out where this stuff originates. It is simply best to respond in the right manner and a tuner shootout is exactly that, but we see what happens.
        this

        * myself included, but learning as we go Click here to enlarge
      1. Remonster's Avatar
        Remonster -
        As I said before, the fact that OE was willing to come out and prove the worthiness of their product makes me that much more confident that they really do make those amazing numbers they claim. The two OE tuned cars in that Ultimate Heist Challenge were pretty awesome, even though you can hardly compare them to the competition (in that challenge, which consisted of totally different cars).

        As far as drama goes, I've been on forums since the E36 days (mainly bf.c back then) and saw AA's rise to fame, they had some of the fastest BMWs in the country at some point if I recall correctly. It's always the same, the current generation BMWs have tons of misinformation from speculating members who don't know as much as they think (definitely guilty of this myself Click here to enlarge ) and tuners who love it when this misinformation makes them look better. It's usually pretty easy to spot the truly great companies if you just sit back and watch how they conduct themselves.
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by BattaM3 Click here to enlarge
        Yea you see drama with the e36 owners instead of tuners.
        That is definitely more accurate.

        I haven't followed the E36 scene closely in a long time but you are likely correct.

        I have seen a couple tuners go at it but nothing like what we see with the E92 M3.
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Remonster Click here to enlarge
        As I said before, the fact that OE was willing to come out and prove the worthiness of their product makes me that much more confident that they really do make those amazing numbers they claim.
        Absolutely!

        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Remonster Click here to enlarge
        The two OE tuned cars in that Ultimate Heist Challenge were pretty awesome, even though you can hardly compare them to the competition (in that challenge, which consisted of totally different cars).
        Yep, it was a different kind of competition but they still won. How can a terrible tuner win any competition let alone ones that aren't traditional?

        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Remonster Click here to enlarge
        As far as drama goes, I've been on forums since the E36 days (mainly bf.c back then) and saw AA's rise to fame, they had some of the fastest BMWs in the country at some point if I recall correctly. It's always the same, the current generation BMWs have tons of misinformation from speculating members who don't know as much as they think (definitely guilty of this myself ) and tuners who love it when this misinformation makes them look better. It's usually pretty easy to spot the truly great companies if you just sit back and watch how they conduct themselves.
        Well said.

        Let's forget this since Powerchip won't step up and focus on getting a roll on races going.
      1. fstop7's Avatar
        fstop7 -
        Nobody wants their

        Click here to enlarge

        and

        Click here to enlarge

        exposed