Horsepower Freaks offering built/sleeved S54 shortblocks with options up to 1200 horse capacity

Originally Posted by Sticky

Any subsequent points are irrelevant. The topic is specifically that the block itself is 1200+ capable, which there is no reason to doubt, and that HPF is offering a complete shortblock package.

I would be interested to learn what they rate the OEM crank to and there other crank options, etc. But this is all pretty clear and I have no doubt Darton knows what they are doing when sleeving an iron block. They may even know more about it than you.

no way, Darton didnt build the blocks in their driveway

lol this is kinda funny! Go team!

Originally Posted by Funkboy316

no way, Darton didnt build the blocks in their driveway

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Nice driveway right? How are those molex connectors going on your AEM lol. Too ghetto for my driveway - only tyco mil spec here, sorry. I know, driveway work sucks.

chill winston!
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p.s. i want that driveway

Originally Posted by 5mall5nail5

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Nice driveway right? How are those molex connectors going on your AEM lol. Too ghetto for my driveway - only tyco mil spec here, sorry. I know, driveway work sucks.

doing just fine. 2 1/2 years and counting.

Originally Posted by Funkboy316

doing just fine. 2 1/2 years and counting.

Good, just don't hit any bumps Computer connectors belong in computers... even for cars built in driveways.

daily driver...hit bumps everyday

thats what my uber hi-tech zipties are for yo

Originally Posted by dreikraft

thats what my uber hi-tech zipties are for yo

LOL too true

Perhaps HPF is using the same shortblock setup Taza made 1100+ with?

Originally Posted by 5mall5nail5

You don't get it - I am sure my M50 stock block could do 1500 rwhp. I could fill the block 1/2 up with epoxy and go for broke. However, these are being marketed as 1200+ rwhp long blocks... they have never made 1200 rwhp they don't know that the pistons are good enough, rods are good enough, hell we don't know that the cranks are good enough. I have no doubt a steel sleeve will contain the pressure for a bit, but that's the least of the issues. Mtran continuous ripped on his car and the motor was severely damaged throughout. So they boasted his rebuild as more, bigger, better, stronger... then they turned it down by 100+ rwhp. They don't have a working setup for 1200 rwhp, its speculation. If you go by what Eagle says about their rods, a 4 cylinder BMW rod they make is good for 225 hp each (900 hp) - so we're to assume their 6 cyl kit will hold 1350 hp? GTFO. A lot of guys are turning over 820 hp on Eagle rods (myself included) but that doesn't mean I am about to trust them up to 1350. This is common sense.

Not a long block being sold here. Also you can build me the strongest engine and I can blow it up with poor tuning. And it's easy to rate a short block to xxxx amount of all the individual components are rated above that number by a quality manufacturer and are properly selected. Eagle rods will not hold 1200hp I don't care what their rated at that's why I said quality manufacturers. In fact I'd like to know who they sourced their components from before we evaluate their claims. The Darton sleeves though are an excellent piece and will easily hold up.

Originally Posted by GG///M3

Its calling for you to send ur crank, because they are providing them with the engine kit rated for 1200.

Exactly right.

Originally Posted by Sticky

Any subsequent points are irrelevant. The topic is specifically that the block itself is 1200+ capable, which there is no reason to doubt, and that HPF is offering a complete shortblock package.

I would be interested to learn what they rate the OEM crank to and their other crank options, etc. But this is all pretty clear and I have no doubt Darton knows what they are doing when sleeving an iron block. They may even know more about it than you.

You've misunderstood them here sticky. Why would they rate their package by it's strongest component? It's supposed to be by the weakest and that is how you rate a package. If they give us a list of who made what and which of their products was used then we can better examine their claim but they are saying all of it is 1200whp capable whether they wrote the word short in there or not or else it would be the most deceptive marketing ever ! Which I'm sure it's not we just need all the info.

Originally Posted by 5mall5nail5

Yes, I do see shortblock in there, here let me highlight it again.

Psst Sticky - how do you order a block with a compression ratio LOL.. unless it has pistons and rods and crank in it?

Its a package. Its a shortblock. You're wrong. And they're blindly rating it.

DING DING! You are indeed correct Jon. On all points thus far.

Originally Posted by Sticky

They are providing you with a 1200 capable block, that doesn't mean the crank is rated at 1200 whp. They say nothing about the rods or crank being tested or 1200 whp capable, just how strong these sleeved blocks are.

This is an important distinction, it's ok to say oops, I missed that. No harm, no foul.

As you said, it is indeed acceptable for you to say, "Oops, I missed that. No harm, no foul." Once you are ready to admit you do not understand what a short block is, or why HPF is rating it at a unknown number, maybe then we can make progress. Otherwise, it sounds like a situation for Capital Hill Also, why the **** would they sell a 1200whp block without the components? At that insanely inflated price, it is pretty obvious you are buying a 1200whp short block as the fricking ad states. Please, do explain what this means: "Option 2 (1000rwhp - STD Bore) - New OEM Block" vs "Option 4 (1200rwhp+ - .040 Under Bore) - Darton Sleeved New OEM Block" and additionally please explain how those are JUST THE BLOCK WHP NUMBERS, and not the SHORT BLOCK, as is being sold per the ad!! I must be confused, please, enlighten me.

Originally Posted by Funkboy316

doing just fine. 2 1/2 years and counting.

So we can assume you installed The Ziptie?

Originally Posted by Jimefam

You've misunderstood them here sticky. Why would they rate their package by it's strongest component? It's supposed to be by the weakest and that is how you rate a package. If they give us a list of who made what and which of their products was used then we can better examine their claim but they are saying all of it is 1200whp capable whether they wrote the word short in there or not or else it would be the most deceptive marketing ever ! Which I'm sure it's not we just need all the info.

Another person who actually can read. Excellent sir. You are fully correct, as Chris' post specified, they are selling WHP rated Shortblocks. Further more, Chris even specified that the 1200WHP blocks "will be good to 1200WHP easy" - How the heck will the motor support 1200WHP if ONLY the block is rated to that? Really Sticky?

Originally Posted by Jimefam

Not a long block being sold here. Also you can build me the strongest engine and I can blow it up with poor tuning. And it's easy to rate a short block to xxxx amount of all the individual components are rated above that number by a quality manufacturer and are properly selected. Eagle rods will not hold 1200hp I don't care what their rated at that's why I said quality manufacturers. In fact I'd like to know who they sourced their components from before we evaluate their claims. The Darton sleeves though are an excellent piece and will easily hold up.

Right I know its not a longblock, but it is a shortblock (longblock = head etc.)

Anytime I've looked at buying assembled short blocks in past it has always been rated by the weakest component was capable of. i.e. http://www.importpartspro.com/st1blon.html Stock VQ sleeves are good until the 900whp range (the site says otherwise but do some research on My350z and you will see that the site is incorrect), yet this block is still rated to 650whp.

Originally Posted by BoostAddict

Anytime I've looked at buying assembled short blocks in past it has always been rated by the weakest component was capable of. i.e. http://www.importpartspro.com/st1blon.html Stock VQ sleeves are good until the 900whp range (the site says otherwise but do some research on My350z and you will see that the site is incorrect), yet this block is still rated to 650whp.

Right so they are advertising a 650 rwhp package, and make no mention of what the block "could" hold. That's typical - anytime you buy a crate motor they are rating the standard power capability of the motor. Same when buying a shortblock from any other place - the quoted power is the power supported by the package. It makes no sense to quote a block at 1200+ rwhp separate of a rotating assembly. I think Sticky is the only one who is confused on this though. I think HPF is advertising the PACKAGE as 1200+ RWHP which everyone seems to agree with. The problem is that they have no proven 1200+ RWHP on any component in that package. Regardless of what a darton sleeve can hold, the block holds the sleeve, the sleeve holes the piston, the piston is on the rod, the rod is on the crank - that whole assembly has never done that power. Don't advertise it as such.

Originally Posted by jacobs323i

lol this is kinda funny! Go team!

This thread is so full of failure. Someone truly has a hard on for HPF. You can't even utilize 1,000 HP in an E46 M3 presently so who really cares to be honest.

Originally Posted by Jimefam

You've misunderstood them here sticky. Why would they rate their package by it's strongest component? It's supposed to be by the weakest and that is how you rate a package. If they give us a list of who made what and which of their products was used then we can better examine their claim but they are saying all of it is 1200whp capable whether they wrote the word short in there or not or else it would be the most deceptive marketing ever ! Which I'm sure it's not we just need all the info.

However it is supposed to be rated is not my doing. HPF did what they did and marketed it the way they marketed it. Playing what if games and criticizing them on points that aren't applicable to what they stated is rather pointless and just looking to be negative because it is HPF.

It isn't deceptive, it's written in straight English. Why people aren't understanding it I have no idea.

Originally Posted by SiGmA_X

At that insanely inflated price, it is pretty obvious you are buying a 1200whp short block as the fricking ad states. Please, do explain what this means: "Option 2 (1000rwhp - STD Bore) - New OEM Block" vs "Option 4 (1200rwhp+ - .040 Under Bore) - Darton Sleeved New OEM Block" and additionally please explain how those are JUST THE BLOCK WHP NUMBERS, and not the SHORT BLOCK, as is being sold per the ad!! I must be confused, please, enlighten me.

Yes, you seem to be very confused. Why you want to hate HPF so badly for not doing anything wrong here other than stating their Darton sleeved blocks are strong I have no clue.

Who is saying they aren't selling a package here for the price? They aren't ripping anyone off or trying to sneak something past you. Their ratings are clearly in reference to their blocks and they clearly are offering a shortblock package. What exactly is so difficult for you to understand?

It isn't obvious you are buying a 1200 whp shortblock because they don't say you are buying a 1200 whp shortblock. They clearly state the block is 1200 whp capable, why can't you simply read?

Option 4 (1200rwhp+ - .040 Under Bore) - Darton Sleeved New OEM Block

1200 whp Darton Sleeved OEM Block. Simple... nothing stated about a 1200 whp capable shortblock as that would call the other components into question but the typical people are in such a hurry to hate on HPF they got carried away before even reading, lol.

If you want HPF to rate the other parts, ask them to. That, or prove why their claim of 1200+ for a Darton sleeved OEM underbored iron block is wrong, which it likely is conservative.