• Steed Speed response to HPF about their S54 turbo manifold along with the accusations of it leaking

      The new cast S54 turbo manifold HPF (Horsepower Freaks) has released is causing quite a stir. There have been some shots taken from all sides and BimmerBoost decided to contact Steed Speed directly to get their response to the issues that have been mentioned. You can read the answers to our questions below.

      The first issue we wanted clarification on was the price drop. It appears that HPF is essentially attempting to cut into the S54 manifold market at a lower price point. We asked if Steed Speed was retaliating:

      Quote Originally Posted by Steed Speed
      The price drop on my manifold is indeed in response to their new manifold which I consider to be a nasty cheap product which will undoubtedly crack as it has a terrible design. Also the merges between passages are needlessly abrupt so performance is going to suffer.
      We asked Steed Speed what they felt about about the switch.

      Quote Originally Posted by Steed Speed
      I would't have minded HPF switching products but I do take exception to them making up lies about my product to justify their pursuit for higher profits.
      There have been accusations that the Steed Speed product leaks inferring a design defect. Here is what Steed Speed had to say about what HPF has said about their manifold leaking:

      Quote Originally Posted by Steed Speed
      There was talk of my manifolds leaking yet I have never had any reports from HPF regarding any problems and I actually asked them recently if they were using the stainless seals I provide and they told me they were happy with the copper seals that they were making locally so didn't feel the need to try my seals. The manifolds are welded on a solid precision fixture so any variance they speak of must be very slight as to be of no consequence for installation. I even had a customer forget to install the seals on his E36 and it ran fine. His name is Colby Cobbs and is also on the forum and can be asked about that too. He actually just bought a second manifold from me so I figure it must be working fine. I have never, ever had any of my customers complain about my manifolds and they have all instead been very happy with the quality and performance.
      Ultimately, Steed Speed believes this cast manifold from HPF is being produced simply to get greater profit per kit.

      Quote Originally Posted by Steed Speed
      HPF is simply trying to justify a lower quality product which is intended to increase their profit per kit.
      HPF attempted to severely undercut Steed Speed who responded by lowering their price to make the difference negligible. Such is business and we are not taking sides but wish for consumers to be as informed as possible before making their decision.

      It has been suggested the Steed Speed manifold will outperform the HPF manifold. We do not know if these claims are true but are open to any independent testing and would be more than happy to report the results. What is most important is to have the best products available with documentation to help consumers make the best/most informed purchasing decision.

      This article was originally published in forum thread: Steed Speed response to HPF about their S54 turbo manifold along with accusations of it leaking started by Sticky View original post
      Comments 273 Comments
      1. THATDONFC's Avatar
        THATDONFC -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
        I actually already sent the e-mail before my posted response Click here to enlarge We'll see, would be great.
        Good job. Let me know if you need some help.
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by THATDONFC Click here to enlarge
        Good job. Let me know if you need some help.
        SteedSpeed agreed to an independent test and said whatever the result let the truth be known. Well then, let's see if HPF feels the same way.
      1. THATDONFC's Avatar
        THATDONFC -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
        SteedSpeed agreed to an independent test and said whatever the result let the truth be known. Well then, let's see if HPF feels the same way.
        That's great! Let's hope HPF agrees as well. Great work steed speed!
      1. BattaM3's Avatar
        BattaM3 -
        Why does everyone Care about hpf so much. People don't act like this to other companies. For the record I'd take steedspeed any day. I have one. I just hope this forum a this way to other companies. Which so far has not happend.
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by BattaM3 Click here to enlarge
        Why does everyone Care about hpf so much. People don't act like this to other companies. For the record I'd take steedspeed any day. I have one. I just hope this forum a this way to other companies. Which so far has not happend.
        HPF is THE company for the S54. They build the best turbo kit for the S54. It's only natural a new development will get coverage especially a on site about BMW Performance.
      1. ccsykes's Avatar
        ccsykes -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
        SteedSpeed agreed to an independent test and said whatever the result let the truth be known. Well then, let's see if HPF feels the same way.
        I honestly doubt the new HPF manifold will flow better than the Steed Speed. However, the difference would be minimal I'm betting. Like spdu4ea has already said, an additional .5-1 psi of boost would easily make up any difference even in the worst case. The new manifold has its advantages being a one piece unit. There also appears to be some slight installation advantages as well. There is nothing wrong with it being sand cast either. To me it seems a few people are just trying to make this non-event into something more than it is and yes I have to agree with Batta, it seems as if there are a group of people who have to constantly complain about everything HPF does. They can't even hire a model for marketing purposes without being criticized.
      1. GG///M3's Avatar
        GG///M3 -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by ccsykes Click here to enlarge
        I honestly doubt the new HPF manifold will flow better than the Steed Speed. However, the difference would be minimal I'm betting. Like spdu4ea has already said, an additional .5-1 psi of boost would easily make up any difference even in the worst case. The new manifold has its advantages being a one piece unit. There also appears to be some slight installation advantages as well. There is nothing wrong with it being sand cast either. .
        spdu4ea maybe right, but time will tell and it will be interesting to see the results from a third party.
      1. ccsykes's Avatar
        ccsykes -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by GG///M3 Click here to enlarge
        spdu4ea maybe right, but time will tell and it will be interesting to see the results from a third party.
        There are also always two sides to every story and I have a feeling we don't know all the facts. I believe Steed Speed (Leen?) already mentioned in this thread that Chris had never said anything to him about leaks.. but yet I just read this post over at bimmerforums.com

        http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum...1&postcount=28

        In another post Steed Speed (Leen) made a comment about HPF having not paid an invoice. It's one thing to argue over who's product is better, but airing financial dealings publicly is another thing entirely.
      1. GG///M3's Avatar
        GG///M3 -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by ccsykes Click here to enlarge
        There are also always two sides to every story and I have a feeling we don't know all the facts. I believe Steed Speed (Leen?) already mentioned in this thread that Chris had never said anything to him about leaks.. but yet I just read this post over at bimmerforums.com

        http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum...1&postcount=28

        In another post Steed Speed (Leen) made a comment about HPF having not paid an invoice. It's one thing to argue over who's product is better, but airing financial dealings publicly is another thing entirely.
        HPF is getting a taste of what they do. Evan comes to mind.
      1. Commanderwiggin's Avatar
        Commanderwiggin -
        Interesting read...I haven't been on these forums much but there is definitely lots of hate around here...this thread is good though. I personally have the SS manifold and will keep it until I hear further results...if it works why break it?

        What I think about SS:
        - Looks awesome
        - Heavier, tougher to install
        - Proven to work (Questionable sealing when mis-installation occurs)

        What I think about the HPF Mani:
        - Doesn't look appealing
        - Lighter, easier to install than SS
        - New unproven product...claims to have better heat resistance
        - Possibly better/easier sealing characteristics during installation
        - Cheaper to manufacture which could lead to reduced cost of kit over time

        What I think about both of them:
        - Beneficial to the F.I. community as it gives people more options/choice about what they want
        - New products are good, create competition and lowers prices
      1. ccsykes's Avatar
        ccsykes -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by GG///M3 Click here to enlarge
        HPF is getting a taste of what they do. Evan comes to mind.
        You didn't comment on the link.

        Getting a taste of what exactly? The VF forum drama over their blown engine went on for months and really hurt their reputation. It seems the drama with Evan lasted all of about two weeks.. just as I predicted it would. Seems to me Chris did a good job of squashing that before it ballooned into a PR nightmare.

        What happens if Chris posts up pictures of Steed Speed manifolds with carbon sooted poorly sealed sections (he said he had some). Combine that with the comment from someone who stated over a year ago that there were known problems with the Steed Speed leaking at the "fire seals" and it seems Chris once again comes out on top wouldn't you say?

        I agree his tact sometimes could be better, but it does appear a proper explanation always emerges in the end. Somehow though there are folks that just always hate.
      1. Commanderwiggin's Avatar
        Commanderwiggin -
        Hate solves nothing...just keeps the truth from coming out and facts hidden.
      1. Sorena's Avatar
        Sorena -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Commanderwiggin Click here to enlarge
        Hate solves nothing...just keeps the truth from coming out and facts hidden.
        this
      1. GG///M3's Avatar
        GG///M3 -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by ccsykes Click here to enlarge
        You didn't comment on the link.

        Getting a taste of what exactly? The VF forum drama over their blown engine went on for months and really hurt their reputation. It seems the drama with Evan lasted all of about two weeks.. just as I predicted it would. Seems to me Chris did a good job of squashing that before it ballooned into a PR nightmare.

        What happens if Chris posts up pictures of Steed Speed manifolds with carbon sooted poorly sealed sections (he said he had some). Combine that with the comment from someone who stated over a year ago that there were known problems with the Steed Speed leaking at the "fire seals" and it seems Chris once again comes out on top wouldn't you say?

        I agree his tact sometimes could be better, but it does appear a proper explanation always emerges in the end. Somehow though there are folks that just always hate.
        I'm not sure about the Vf stuff I never really liked their products. Chris has come across many times as a prick. Many times on various forums when simple questions asked they are viewed as attacks. Chris once accused me of working for AA ROFL.
      1. Steed Speed's Avatar
        Steed Speed -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by ccsykes Click here to enlarge
        You didn't comment on the link.

        Getting a taste of what exactly? The VF forum drama over their blown engine went on for months and really hurt their reputation. It seems the drama with Evan lasted all of about two weeks.. just as I predicted it would. Seems to me Chris did a good job of squashing that before it ballooned into a PR nightmare.

        What happens if Chris posts up pictures of Steed Speed manifolds with carbon sooted poorly sealed sections (he said he had some). Combine that with the comment from someone who stated over a year ago that there were known problems with the Steed Speed leaking at the "fire seals" and it seems Chris once again comes out on top wouldn't you say?

        I agree his tact sometimes could be better, but it does appear a proper explanation always emerges in the end. Somehow though there are folks that just always hate.
        Pictures of a sooty manifold are easily produced with a quick blast around the block with no seals installed.

        I repeat, HPF has never in 4 years mentioned any problems with sealing.

        I repeat, HPF has never used the seals which I supply with my manifolds. If there was a problem don't you think they would have at least given them a go?
      1. Commanderwiggin's Avatar
        Commanderwiggin -
        I have heard of exhaust leaks with the SS manifold and it was pretty much unanimous that the only issue is with installation...the copper seals work...I'm sure the SS ones work as well. The better of the two seals? I do not know.
      1. Steed Speed's Avatar
        Steed Speed -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by ccsykes Click here to enlarge
        In another post Steed Speed (Leen) made a comment about HPF having not paid an invoice. It's one thing to argue over who's product is better, but airing financial dealings publicly is another thing entirely.
        But it's ok to trash my products in a video based on a fabricated lie regarding a supposed problem which has never been mentioned to me in 4 years of dealing with HPF? I think that if HPF are going to do that then the least they can do is settle their account with me. I have been waiting months and have asked several times for the final balance but it seems to get ignored. After the way they have treated me I don't feel the need to be polite anymore.
      1. 5mall5nail5's Avatar
        5mall5nail5 -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by ccsykes Click here to enlarge
        I honestly doubt the new HPF manifold will flow better than the Steed Speed. However, the difference would be minimal I'm betting. Like spdu4ea has already said, an additional .5-1 psi of boost would easily make up any difference even in the worst case. The new manifold has its advantages being a one piece unit. There also appears to be some slight installation advantages as well. There is nothing wrong with it being sand cast either. To me it seems a few people are just trying to make this non-event into something more than it is and yes I have to agree with Batta, it seems as if there are a group of people who have to constantly complain about everything HPF does. They can't even hire a model for marketing purposes without being criticized.

        Sigh.

        An additional .5 - 1 psi is the difference? How are you quantifying that?

        Do you understand how exhaust manifolds work? They work on flow - if you you swap to this cast unit and it flows 8% less, adding 1 psi won't make up for that - you will suffer 8% worse at all ranges of the motors operation. Further, adding boost won't help - why? Boost in requires flow out! There are single turbo V8's that run 12 - 14 psi on a 90mm turbo to make 1000 hp using cast iron truck manifolds turned front ways with a Y pipe. They swap to tubular steel headers and make 1000 hp on much less boost.

        Think of it like a supercharger since that boost control is based on engine RPM - guys run a vortech s/c at 10 psi with stock headers. They swap to tubular headers and their boost drops to 8 psi. Where'd it go? The supercharger is making the same boost cfm because its belt driven... but boost went down - it went down because the motor is now flowing better. You make more power with better flow than you do higher pressures - "PSI" is measured in front of the intake valve - there's a whole other half of the engine you seem to not take into account. I'd rather flow 450 cfm per cylinder and make 3 psi than flow 180 cfm and make 20 psi. That is going to be the difference with the HPF manifold. You will also watch their horsepower fall off up top - this is the downside of the drastic entry they have off the head port. Please don't contribute unless you understand how PSI and FLOW work.
      1. 5mall5nail5's Avatar
        5mall5nail5 -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by ccsykes Click here to enlarge

        In another post Steed Speed (Leen) made a comment about HPF having not paid an invoice. It's one thing to argue over who's product is better, but airing financial dealings publicly is another thing entirely.
        You're kidding right? Airing financial details is frowned upon? How about HPF Chris posting Evans payment plan, late payments, discounts, warranty, etc.??? HPF Chris did something FAR worse - I don't care so much when a B2B discloses issues they have with payments vs when B2P does the same... hows that for some marketing terms rofl.
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by ccsykes Click here to enlarge
        I honestly doubt the new HPF manifold will flow better than the Steed Speed. However, the difference would be minimal I'm betting. Like spdu4ea has already said, an additional .5-1 psi of boost would easily make up any difference even in the worst case. The new manifold has its advantages being a one piece unit. There also appears to be some slight installation advantages as well. There is nothing wrong with it being sand cast either. To me it seems a few people are just trying to make this non-event into something more than it is and yes I have to agree with Batta, it seems as if there are a group of people who have to constantly complain about everything HPF does. They can't even hire a model for marketing purposes without being criticized.
        Very true but the model is a whole separate issue. That will invite criticism since auto sites are male dominated and it seems like they are trying to use sex appeal to sell. Some guys just want info without that that nonsense and it cheapens their image. They can market however they want, but I doubt you are all that surprised forums are focusing a bit on that aspect.

        Spdu4ea is likely right. Best way to find out is to do a test and if people are interested we can probably make that happen.